As a non-competitive person who loves to lift others up, I love this. As an indie author who would love to one day make money through her writing, but never at the expense of knocking anyone else, I doubly love this.
Great post!! The other trap I see Indies fall into besides competition is trying to emulate someone else. How many times do we hear “do this” and you will be successful too. Not only is this not true but it stifles so much creativity, which as you say is the beauty of being an Indie .
*clapping* We think a lot alike, you and I. Must be that Virgo/Gemini companionship and the Amazonian height! Twitter's trick is duping people into thinking they're part of a community when the reality is a lot of people would rake someone over the coals if it would get them a few hundred likes and the flimsy accolades of strangers. It's so sick. Like, so sick I can't hang with it anymore. I've seen my fair share of bad actors rise up when it's opportunistic in order to tear someone down they see as competitors so they could stand on their corpse and be seen, if only for one moment of glory.
That’s the perfect word for it--sick. And so unnecessary! Also I’m cracking up over the Virgo/Gemini thing--my IRL bestie is a Gemini and we frequently have to confer about things like, are we crazy or are people deeply messed up?? It’s a Mercury vibe 🤣🖤
Oof. Mean Lit Twitter made me leave social media. But I think that not every indie press that fails is not necessarily because editors are on a power/ego trip. I have seen, been part of, and been sad at the loss of many lovely indie presses over the years. Some folded for exactly the reasons you mention above, sure. Bye, Felicia. But other sometimes close shop because it's a money-losing endeavor for editors who are in it for the love, or for whom the love gets poisoned by aggressive authors and Lit Twitter brigading.
What you're saying here is both true and necessary, but it doesn't address that margin of presses who fail NOT because the editors don't love it, are in it for the wrong reasons, or aren't willing to do the work.
But your thoughts on competition and the lifting oneself up by tearing others down -- that's definitely something not talked about enough. I have seen some of the cruelest things in Submittable and it affects how, when, and where I submit. I appreciate you taking the time to articulate it, because I think if we talked about it more, we'd realize that passing the wound to others isn't the way to heal it.
One last note: I definitely think that creative writing MFA programs contribute to this "rip them to shreds" mentality on the part of some writers/editors. It's definitely something that is encouraged in all sorts of ways in the MFA Machine and I think is definitely a contributing factor.
As ever, a compelling read, thank you for writing it.
Oops, this wasn’t a post about the failures of indie presses nor was I implying that’s the reasons pressed fail. Sorry it wasn’t clear. Most cutthroat presses are succeeding and they flood the market and dominate the Twitter-sphere, making it harder for the decent folks to make it. I’m inclined to agree with you about the MFA machine encouraging the toxic mentality. Also, just because I have experience & an opinion on one specific part of an industry doesn’t mean I don’t see the rest of it. It’s just my latest gripe - lol. I played the “play nice to everyone on Twitter” game too long. My personal blog is meant to be blunt.
Oh no offense taken -- I am starting a conversation with you because so much of what you're talking about isn't a mere "gripe" -- it's a fucked up reality. Most of the closed-up presses that I loved fell victim to the Lit Twitter stuff you're discussing in the post, which is probably why some it felt "ouch" but ouch is okay -- it's part of the conversation. I truly appreciate your press (and sweet swag, I definitely rocked a witchy moth butt in Reno) -- and the anthology & novel I've read have all been the kind of writing that I've been wanting to find, but it's hard in the "shouting into the Twitter void" you're talking about. I'm pretty sure I googled "Who published goth poems" and found the press, so yay for the Google algortithm?
I am sorry if I made you feel defensive, that was definitely not my intention. I love that you're starting a conversation that really needs to happen more often, and I very much support and appreciate the work you do. 🦇🦇🦇
Aw, not at all, I just wanted to make it clear what I was trying to say. Communication is a two-way street and I try to make sure I’m not saying things wrong! I’m obviously very passionate about this topic 😅 I appreciate your support and for reading my posts 🙏🏽🖤
I'm glad you're passionate about it -- we need more of that, and I love the conversations you're starting. Because I want the good publishers to thrive & survive!
Thank you for this post. It's so validating. In the past I have jumped on the bandwagon and often fallen of the back fender feeling a failure (ooh, did I really just write that alliteration? Quick cut and paste for future use0. I've done the instant pitch, paid the twenty dollars to get myself miserable and occasionally delved into realms where I had little experience, just to see a short story published. I've stopped now. At 74, I write what I enjoy writing, hopefully telling a good tale and self-publishing on Amazon. I don't bounce on the promotional bandwagon or seek the help of self-promoting specialists. The books are there and some people are reading them. That's great and I love it. Nevertheless, just having that little printed volume in my hands is enough.
I'm so sorry you went through that. I think that type of scenario is a lot more common than people realize and it's such a shame. Glad that "friend" exposed herself quick enough that you could run far away from her! Appreciate you reading 🖤
As a non-competitive person who loves to lift others up, I love this. As an indie author who would love to one day make money through her writing, but never at the expense of knocking anyone else, I doubly love this.
This is why we’re friends 😌
Y'all are good eggs.
So much truth in this, Cass! Thanks for writing it!
Thank you for reading! 🖤
Great post!! The other trap I see Indies fall into besides competition is trying to emulate someone else. How many times do we hear “do this” and you will be successful too. Not only is this not true but it stifles so much creativity, which as you say is the beauty of being an Indie .
💯💯
*clapping* We think a lot alike, you and I. Must be that Virgo/Gemini companionship and the Amazonian height! Twitter's trick is duping people into thinking they're part of a community when the reality is a lot of people would rake someone over the coals if it would get them a few hundred likes and the flimsy accolades of strangers. It's so sick. Like, so sick I can't hang with it anymore. I've seen my fair share of bad actors rise up when it's opportunistic in order to tear someone down they see as competitors so they could stand on their corpse and be seen, if only for one moment of glory.
That’s the perfect word for it--sick. And so unnecessary! Also I’m cracking up over the Virgo/Gemini thing--my IRL bestie is a Gemini and we frequently have to confer about things like, are we crazy or are people deeply messed up?? It’s a Mercury vibe 🤣🖤
Oof. Mean Lit Twitter made me leave social media. But I think that not every indie press that fails is not necessarily because editors are on a power/ego trip. I have seen, been part of, and been sad at the loss of many lovely indie presses over the years. Some folded for exactly the reasons you mention above, sure. Bye, Felicia. But other sometimes close shop because it's a money-losing endeavor for editors who are in it for the love, or for whom the love gets poisoned by aggressive authors and Lit Twitter brigading.
What you're saying here is both true and necessary, but it doesn't address that margin of presses who fail NOT because the editors don't love it, are in it for the wrong reasons, or aren't willing to do the work.
But your thoughts on competition and the lifting oneself up by tearing others down -- that's definitely something not talked about enough. I have seen some of the cruelest things in Submittable and it affects how, when, and where I submit. I appreciate you taking the time to articulate it, because I think if we talked about it more, we'd realize that passing the wound to others isn't the way to heal it.
One last note: I definitely think that creative writing MFA programs contribute to this "rip them to shreds" mentality on the part of some writers/editors. It's definitely something that is encouraged in all sorts of ways in the MFA Machine and I think is definitely a contributing factor.
As ever, a compelling read, thank you for writing it.
Oops, this wasn’t a post about the failures of indie presses nor was I implying that’s the reasons pressed fail. Sorry it wasn’t clear. Most cutthroat presses are succeeding and they flood the market and dominate the Twitter-sphere, making it harder for the decent folks to make it. I’m inclined to agree with you about the MFA machine encouraging the toxic mentality. Also, just because I have experience & an opinion on one specific part of an industry doesn’t mean I don’t see the rest of it. It’s just my latest gripe - lol. I played the “play nice to everyone on Twitter” game too long. My personal blog is meant to be blunt.
Oh no offense taken -- I am starting a conversation with you because so much of what you're talking about isn't a mere "gripe" -- it's a fucked up reality. Most of the closed-up presses that I loved fell victim to the Lit Twitter stuff you're discussing in the post, which is probably why some it felt "ouch" but ouch is okay -- it's part of the conversation. I truly appreciate your press (and sweet swag, I definitely rocked a witchy moth butt in Reno) -- and the anthology & novel I've read have all been the kind of writing that I've been wanting to find, but it's hard in the "shouting into the Twitter void" you're talking about. I'm pretty sure I googled "Who published goth poems" and found the press, so yay for the Google algortithm?
I am sorry if I made you feel defensive, that was definitely not my intention. I love that you're starting a conversation that really needs to happen more often, and I very much support and appreciate the work you do. 🦇🦇🦇
Aw, not at all, I just wanted to make it clear what I was trying to say. Communication is a two-way street and I try to make sure I’m not saying things wrong! I’m obviously very passionate about this topic 😅 I appreciate your support and for reading my posts 🙏🏽🖤
I'm glad you're passionate about it -- we need more of that, and I love the conversations you're starting. Because I want the good publishers to thrive & survive!
Thank you for this post. It's so validating. In the past I have jumped on the bandwagon and often fallen of the back fender feeling a failure (ooh, did I really just write that alliteration? Quick cut and paste for future use0. I've done the instant pitch, paid the twenty dollars to get myself miserable and occasionally delved into realms where I had little experience, just to see a short story published. I've stopped now. At 74, I write what I enjoy writing, hopefully telling a good tale and self-publishing on Amazon. I don't bounce on the promotional bandwagon or seek the help of self-promoting specialists. The books are there and some people are reading them. That's great and I love it. Nevertheless, just having that little printed volume in my hands is enough.
I'm so sorry you went through that. I think that type of scenario is a lot more common than people realize and it's such a shame. Glad that "friend" exposed herself quick enough that you could run far away from her! Appreciate you reading 🖤